The Awareness Podcast, Ep.43: Living in Not-Knowing with Jenny Beal and Lawrie Smith- Truth, Justice and Freedom

jenny beal lawrie smith truth living in not knowing Nov 10, 2022

Episode #43: Living in Not-Knowing with Jenny Beal and Lawrie Smith:- Truth, Justice and Freedom


In this Living in Not-Knowing podcast, Lawrie Smith, talks about her spiritual journey and her life as a judge in Canada. Everyone loves truth, justice and fairness. These are inherent attributes of our true nature.

Jenny and Lawrie discuss the purpose of the legal system and the various ways in which the concept of ‘living in not-knowing’ is enshrined in the practice of law. Judges and jury members are required to listen to the facts from a position of complete openness.

They discuss the concept of ‘no reasonable doubt’ versus absolute certainty. We can apply the same principles in our daily lives. We all have prejudices based on our conditioning, but mostly they are hidden. Serving on a jury or working as a judge can bring these to light.

Lawrie goes on to describe how applying the concept of living in not-knowing in daily life brings freedom and happiness.



Lawrie’s interest in spiritual life began at the age of 7 when God appeared to her in a vision and said “I will take care of you”. That was followed by an interest in indigenous spirituality; earth and its heavens are sacred. It wasn’t until her 20’s that she came across yoga, meditation and what she now knows as the progressive path.

Her interest in yoga continued throughout her working life as a lawyer, trial judge and as a mother and wife. She started attending silent retreats with a Buddhist teacher in her 40s with yoga and meditation as a constant for finding balance in a busy life.

It wasn’t until she retired 10 years ago that Lawrie was finally able to concentrate on that which interested her. She visited India a number of times and Tibet to walk around Mount Kailash. Her yoga fell away as she moved towards Advaita Vedanta as taught by the Sivananda Ashram in Rishikesh, India. Eventually a Swami from that ashram introduced her to Rupert Spira. Her interest in Rupert’s teaching led her to Francis Lucille and from there to Jenny Beal.

Although life for Lawrie has always moved from surprise to surprise, it is a relief for her to discover that she isn’t, Awareness is, and not knowing is the key to freedom.